Jeremy West is a recognisable figure in the history of independent funeral directing, long involved with SAIF and in the founding of Golden Charter. Malcolm gets his views on the big picture for Independents, from direct cremation to regulation.
Jeremy West is a recognisable figure in the history of independent funeral directing, long involved with SAIF and in the founding of Golden Charter. Malcolm gets his views on the big picture for Independents, from direct cremation to regulation.
Malcolm Flanders [00:00:04] Welcome to the Partnership Podcast. In recent episodes, we've honed in on current issues like families, digital adoption, regulation and the pandemic. Today, we'll be zooming out, and looking at how those issues fit into the wider story of the funeral profession. I'll be speaking to Jeremy West, chairman and managing director of West and Coe, which next year will celebrate 120 years in business in Essex. Jeremy himself is a well-known figure in the history of SAIF, and independent funeral directing, not least because he was instrumental in setting up and directing Golden Charter for many years. We'll be getting his perspective on the independent sector as it stands, and where he sees it going.
Malcolm Flanders [00:00:47] So, Jeremy, good morning. How are you?
Jeremy West [00:00:50] Good morning, Malcolm. Very well, thank you. Yes.
Malcolm Flanders [00:00:53] Excellent. Well, thank you for your time. Appreciate it. And looking forward to the conversation we're going to have for this podcast. So, look, as an established business, and one with a lot of experience in working with other independents, how do you feel recent developments will affect the general health of the profession? Is it in a good position to sustain and grow over the next, say, five years?
Jeremy West [00:01:17] There's no doubt about it, it's been a very, very difficult three years. I think, first of all, the CMA, Covid in particular, the new regulations regarding prepayment funeral plans, and then the latest is direct cremation, all in three years. It's probably a really scary time in our profession. I mean, Covid has drained funeral directors to the extent that some of them are seriously thinking if it's worth carrying on, which is a great shame.
Jeremy West [00:01:47] I remember back in 1985/89, when a lot of funeral directors sold, purely in fear, because they didn't see a future. I sincerely hope that this doesn't go that way. I think as a profession, I still believe that good service is the key to everything, and I think funeral directors have got to be aware of the problems out there, and just adapt to them.
Malcolm Flanders [00:02:11] Right. Okay, fair enough. So what are some of the specific threats that you think all independents should be watching, or tackling, now? And can they be turned to the independent's advantage?
Jeremy West [00:02:24] I think our funeral profession over many years has been quite fortunate, because we've seen other industries, where technology has taken over and changes have happened, that have actually put businesses out of existence. I don't think we've really ever kind of faced anything like that, because we are a service orientated business, which is very well respected throughout the UK.
Jeremy West [00:02:49] I don't see the CMA and the FCA as a real threat. I think they're kind of obstacles that have to be overturned, and come to terms with. But I do see the direct cremation, and what's happening there, as a real big concern. I spoke to a funeral director a little while ago that said to me, "I don't do direct cremations." I said, "Why not?" He said, "I don't believe them, don't promote them, and I'm not going to do them."
Jeremy West [00:03:19] I said, "well, the statistics show that there's an awful lot of direct cremations taking place in the country. There's also the pre-payment plans of direct cremations. However much you know your locality, I can assure you probably 10%, or more, people in that locality are thinking of direct cremations."
Malcolm Flanders [00:03:39] Yeah.
Jeremy West [00:03:40] I said, "you've got a son in the business as well." I said, "he's not going to be happy if you kind of turn your back on that, then find your numbers have reduced substantially." It is something out there now that direct cremations appeals to people, and it's about choice. And I think all funeral directors, with that, have got to realise that what the impact that is, how you overcome it, and how you actually promote it in your own locality.
Jeremy West [00:04:07] And you're no doubt aware, most people are, that SAIF have got into a partnership with Westerleigh. I believe that is a major kind of plus to actually trying to compete with some of the bigger companies. It's not ideal. And I, for one, don't like promoting direct cremations, but we've got to really embrace that, take that on board, and work through that, and turn direct cremations into personal direct cremations, where the local funeral director is very much involved in that.
Jeremy West [00:04:42] I mean, there's a lot of questions with direct cremations at the moment, that people don't really ask, don't know where the body's taken, what actually happens in that process. But a local funeral director's got a part to play in that.
Jeremy West [00:04:56] I also think that there is a big change in our profession. In the east end of London, where are business has been, we've seen in the last 20 years an incredible kind of change around of different ethnic groups coming in, and where we were, many, many East End families having big elaborate funerals, that's not perhaps the case now. But we've had to embrace that. If we didn't, then what would happen to our business? We might as well put the 'closed' sign up.
Jeremy West [00:05:22] So it's interesting, but I don't think the threat to independents is as big as some people may think it is. I think we can turn it around, and good service, and being aware of what's out there is the key to it.
Malcolm Flanders [00:05:40] That's encouraging, Jeremy, thank you. Just a quick follow up question there on the sort of operational impact of Pure Cremations at the moment. I know some funeral directors do actually help Pure out by making a collection of the deceased. How do you feel about that?
Jeremy West [00:05:55] I honestly believe that it's not a kind of situation my company would be involved in at all. I think funeral directors are being used. I don't like the kind of set up of, where the bodies taken, what happens, the mystery of when that body is moved away. It's understanding all about what direct cremation is.
Jeremy West [00:06:18] And I've got no problem with a family coming into my office to have a direct cremation. I will talk them through the kind of size, but I don't think people quite understand what direct cremation is. But, you know, I think to help other companies, that are not geared up to give the level of service that a lot of independents do, I think is wrong. And I certainly wouldn't be one to participate in helping them.
Malcolm Flanders [00:06:46] Great. That's very clear. Thank you, Jeremy. Okay. If we can look more closely at regulation, just for a moment, when we talked about regulation by the Competition and Markets Authority last year, what we're often talking about was pricing. What strategies do you adopt to pricing to balance being fair, realistic and competitive in your market?
Jeremy West [00:07:06] Well, I think the CMA inquiry, what did it achieve? Anybody can bury or cremate a dead person, putting it crudely, but it's looking after the bereaved, and what the actual funeral directors do. And whether you're an independent, a Co-Op, or a Dignity, there's a lot of really good, caring people out there that go over and above in their job of helping people come to terms with that death. And that wasn't recognised anywhere in the CMA report. And that's very, very sad.
Jeremy West [00:07:40] I do think today that choice has got an incredible, big part to play in funerals. People want different. I mean, I walked through my workshop this morning, I was amazed to see the different caskets there; American caskets, willow caskets, and colourful coffins. And that's not us promoting it. That is the choice of what families want. They see it on the internet now, and they come in with their preconceived views of what they want. Which is right.
Jeremy West [00:08:12] I think also people want good service, good premises, smart staff, good vehicles. But all that costs money. I believe our own charges are very fair. But it's recognised that probably a funeral takes about 35 man hours, or women hours, or whatever you like to call it, to complete the funeral. But then if you apply that to my local Ford dealer in the area here in Dagenham, it's over £100 an hour. So, looking at it, are we expensive as a funeral profession? For what we provide, the service we provide, the know how? I don't think we are.
Jeremy West [00:08:55] So when it comes to putting costs, whether they've got to be itemised, or a collective kind of amount, I honestly believe that funeral directors ought to be proud of doing that, and not shy away from it. I really don't kinda understand this business of, "well, we don't want to put too much in there, because the CMA might be monitoring us," or, "our next door, neighbouring funeral director might be undercutting us." That is completely wrong. And I'm amazed that certain kind of companies that, since the CMA report's come out, have decided to put their costs down quite substantially.
Jeremy West [00:09:34] What does that say to the CMA? Have we been ripping people off in the past? No, I think the thing is all along, the price that you charge a family, if you can honestly feel is fair, what you provide, the service, and everybody's got a right to make a profit, and you publicise that in an open, honest way, I don't see anybody's got anything to do with it. We're kind of criticised in that. I do see a lot of problems where we're almost charging a lot more than what perhaps we should and it's not publicised, or we're undercutting it to the extent where it's not sustainable to provide the service.
Malcolm Flanders [00:10:17] So it's about being sort of honest and transparent but offering fair value to your families, rather than actually trying to be the cheapest all the time?
Jeremy West [00:10:25] Without a doubt. And I think that is the key. And I still say, right through, any kind of talk I ever give, the service is the main thing.
Malcolm Flanders [00:10:36] Right, now turning to pre-need regulation, how do you feel about the Financial Conduct Authority requirements beginning in the summer? How are you preparing your business for it?
Jeremy West [00:10:45] Well, I think regulations in the pre-paid sector has been well overdue. There's been too many companies that could, with the loopholes that are there, abuse it a lot more than what it has. And thankfully, we haven't had too much of that. But, there's nothing to stop a company setting up, going into a care home, and selling lots of pre-payment plans, and then going to the other side of the world, and taking the money with them. It was only when the funeral couldn't be carried out, in the past, that the problem arose.
Jeremy West [00:11:17] So are the proposed regulations over the top for funeral directors? I personally think they are. I think there is a lot of local people that want to come to their funeral director, who they know, and they feel very comfortable with, to talk about their funerals, and pay for it. I don't think that is quite being taken in with the regulations. I think there's an awful lot of work for funeral directors to do. And there's an awful lot to understand of what the regulations mean. It's one thing ticking all the boxes, and getting the Golden Charter approval, but I think there's twofold there. One is, complying with all the regulations, but the second for funeral directors is understanding exactly what that means. And I think that is a key that Golden Charter, and other plan providers, have got quite a mountain to climb and get over.
Malcolm Flanders [00:12:12] Appreciate that, alright, thank you. Okay, now looking at West and Coe, I've seen you referred to as Dagenham's oldest business. What are some practical areas of your current work that still bring your families back, time and time again, across different generations?
Jeremy West [00:12:28] I suppose the big thing is recommendations. Recommendations come from good service, being respected in the area. We're heavily involved in a lot of community projects. We do know an awful lot of people in our area. I think the standards that we provide, the way we portray ourselves within the community, builds a type of respect that's there. And, there is people, and of course, I understand that they've probably moved into the area, who don't know who the local funeral directors are. But if you've got many, many years worth of good and honest trading, as it were, and certain standards, it puts you in very good stead for the future.
Jeremy West [00:13:15] I think also, there's an expression that, "it's hard to get to the top, but it's even harder to stay at the top." And I think when you do strive to get everything right, it is actually the service level, which is the key. And service motivates me, and all my staff know profit doesn't. And I think if you've got all that behind you, then any challenges that you meet, you can kind of meet them head on, and be confident that you can overcome them.
Malcolm Flanders [00:13:45] Got it. And am I right in thinking you still personally conduct funerals yourself, as well as managing?
Jeremy West [00:13:51] My mobile phone results in about 50 odd funerals a year, or more, coming through that, of contacts you've got. And I'm not the only one of my staff, other people are involved in there. So, it's built up over years. And I think I'm actively involved in my business. I'm in every morning, well before 7 o'clock, and not shooting off at 1 o'clock in the afternoon to play golf. So yeah, a full day.
Malcolm Flanders [00:14:18] Well, you're looking well on it, well done. Okay, now, we recently spoke to Declan Maguire about SAIF Digital on the podcast. How important is your website, social media, and other aspects of online work to West and Coe nowadays?
Jeremy West [00:14:32] Well, you are speaking to the biggest dinosaur.
Malcolm Flanders [00:14:35] I thought that as I read that actually, but, go on.
Jeremy West [00:14:40] Having said that, I'm very, very conscious of the need to be involved in that, and the big part that plays today in promoting your company. Luckily my son, and other people, are not such dinosaurs as myself. But that is enormous today, and I think the work that Declan's doing is an education to a lot of funeral directors, and I think is vital to the future. It's something that funeral directors have really got to embrace, and if they don't, they are left behind a little bit.
Jeremy West [00:15:14] I think there's also a responsibility on social media. We are a funeral profession, and I would hate to see it cheapened by silly gimmicks on there. But, overall to your question, yeah, I think it's a massive part of the future of promotion of the company, whereas years ago, we used to put the advert in the local paper, and that would be viewed, I think, as a total waste of money now. But I really feel that, yeah, we would embrace it as much as we can, whatever Declan comes out, we will certainly look at it, and we're very grateful to him, and his team, for what they're doing.
Malcolm Flanders [00:15:55] Good stuff. Thank you. We've got listeners to this podcast from all around the UK. If I asked you for one piece of advice to share with your fellow funeral directors across the UK, what would that be?
Jeremy West [00:16:08] There's a few points really, but the main one would be be proud of the service you provide in your community. And strive to be the best. I think, also, to view change as a challenge, and embrace it. It's very easy to kind of get downhearted over things, especially when you are a small business, and you see problems out there. But don't give up. Hard work, and working as a team within your company, is really paramount to what you bring to the community. And don't underestimate saying what you actually bring to the community. There's many, many people that probably don't sing from the hills about how wonderful you are, but deep down they've been very, very appreciative of funeral directors. So, be proud of your business, view change as a challenge, but work hard and you've got a future.
Malcolm Flanders [00:17:06] Excellent. Very sound advice. Jeremy, thank you very much. Appreciate your time today for the podcast.
Jeremy West [00:17:13] Thank you.
Malcolm Flanders [00:17:18] Thank you for listening to the Partnership Podcast. All of our previous episodes can be found online at goldencharter.buzzsprout.com, touching on many of these issues Jeremy discussed with me today. You can also find us on a range of podcast apps, and you can contact me directly if you have anything to contribute, or suggest, malcolm.flanders@goldencharter.co.uk. Thanks for joining me, and I'll talk to you next time on the Partnership Podcast.